Jack Campbell Interview: Electrician, War Veteran

SP_FC_3803_U54_N_5_10_side2 Jack Campbell.mp3

Recorded c. 1964

Transcribed by Donna Sacuta 2025

 

Interviewer [00:00:03] Uh, let’s see, it’s the 25th of August today, right?

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:06] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:00:07] And, uh, you’re Mr. Jack Campbell.

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:09] Jack Campbell, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:00:11] 4147 Eton Street, Burnaby. Well, were you born in BC?

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:19] No, I was born in Ireland.

 

Interviewer [00:00:22] I see, and when did you come over?

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:26] I came, oh now, it’d be about— Let’s see, I’m 80 now, about, oh about 60 years ago.

 

Interviewer [00:00:36] Sixty years? So just around, just after the turn of the century.

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:41] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:00:41] And how old were you then? How old were you then?

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:47] I was about 20.

 

Interviewer [00:00:48] You were about 20.

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:48] 20, 21, something like that.

 

Interviewer [00:00:50] So you’re about 80.

 

Jack Campbell [00:00:52] Yes.

 

Interviewer [00:00:52] Gee, you don’t look it. Well, and where did you start working then? Where did you go, first to Vancouver?

 

Jack Campbell [00:01:04] No, well, I went first to Winnipeg, but I only stayed there for two weeks, and then I came down to Arrowhead.

 

Interviewer [00:01:14] Where is that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:01:16] At the head of the Arrow Lakes.

 

Interviewer [00:01:19] The Arrow Lakes. Was that in the gold rush?

 

Jack Campbell [00:01:20] What?

 

Interviewer [00:01:20] Was that in the gold rush?

 

Jack Campbell [00:01:22] No, no, no. There were sawmills and stuff like that there then. There was just a couple of sawmills at Arrowhead, and then it was the, you know, it was the head of the navigation, right, for the boats going up and down the Arrow Lakes.

 

Interviewer [00:01:42] How long did you stay there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:01:44] Oh, only about — I don’t think I stayed six months there.

 

Interviewer [00:01:55] And when? This was when? 19—about 1906-1907?

 

Jack Campbell [00:02:01] Something like that.  1906 or 1907.

 

Interviewer [00:02:07] Where did you go then?

 

Jack Campbell [00:02:09] I went down the Okanagan. I worked on a, you know, sort of a ranch down there for all of one winter.

 

Interviewer [00:02:24] And how long were you there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:02:27] About six months.

 

Interviewer [00:02:32] I was trying to find out how you’d travel around where you were.

 

Jack Campbell [00:02:36] Then I went from there back to Calgary and worked on the CPR (Canadian Pacific Railway) on a bridge crew for about, oh, I think about 1908 or 1910s.

 

Interviewer [00:02:54] When would that have been?

 

Jack Campbell [00:02:57] That would be about 1908. From there then, I don’t know. Oh, I came back to Revelstoke, and I worked out of Revelstoke for the CPR on a mason gang and fired a steam shovel for them. I worked up on the Great Divide, ballasting those two tunnels up there, you know, the great tunnels.

 

Interviewer [00:03:39] I’ve heard about it. Then where did you go then? How long were you there? In Revelstoke.

 

Jack Campbell [00:03:47] This went, uh, that must have been pretty near a year there. Then I came to Vancouver. Sort of, you know, jobs are pretty, there in the wintertime, jobs are pretty damned hard to get though in the wintertime, then. It wasn’t until the spring I was able to get a job and started as a helper for an electrician. On that, so that would be about 1910. And that’s when I joined the International first. Then in 19—

 

Interviewer [00:04:37] This was which one, IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers)?

 

Jack Campbell [00:04:40] IBEW, yeah. Oh, at that time it was the two factions of the IBEW. There was one that was known as the Reid-Murphy, that was the one we belonged to at that time, and another was the McNulty-Collins.

 

Interviewer [00:04:59] I see.

 

Jack Campbell [00:05:06] Then in 1915, I went back to the old country during the war. I worked in the old country on the ship repair work.

 

Interviewer [00:05:22] From 1915 to 1918?

 

Jack Campbell [00:05:26] 1915 all through the war and for some time after that.

 

Interviewer [00:05:33] When did you get back here?

 

Jack Campbell [00:05:34] I think it was about 1920.

 

Interviewer [00:05:41] Then since then you’ve stayed around here?

 

Jack Campbell [00:05:43] Yes, since then I’ve stayed, I’ve stayed around there.

 

Interviewer [00:05:47] Well, um, while you were up in Arrowhead, was there any union around there that you remember?

 

Jack Campbell [00:05:54] No, no, I don’t remember any union there.

 

Interviewer [00:06:00] What about, what about the CPR, when you were at the CPR? What union was there then? There were unions around then.

 

Jack Campbell [00:06:11] Yes, there were unions. Oh yes, they — [noise] like in Alberta, with the, oh I joined the Permanent Way Men in Alberta, I guess I only, just about only paid my initiation fee and about a couple of, you know, dues but in Revelstoke I never, never run across any that I could belong to. Of course, there were, you know, the Railroad Brotherhood of Firemen and Engineers and all that, the railroad brothers, they were pretty strong there then.

 

Interviewer [00:07:06] Was there any contact in Revelstoke when you were there with the railway workers? There was a general sort of industrial union.

 

Jack Campbell [00:07:22] I don’t remember any of that.

 

Interviewer [00:07:27] I think that was actually before then, but you don’t remember that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:07:33] No, I don’t remember anything about it.

 

Interviewer [00:07:34] Were there any strikes around then when you were there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:07:37] No. None.

 

Interviewer [00:07:40] Well, so the first time you get back, then you get to Vancouver in 1910.

 

Jack Campbell [00:07:48] Yes, about 1910.

 

Interviewer [00:07:51] Well, were you, have you ever been when you, since you joined in the IBEW, were you ever on any executive positions?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:07] I was recording secretary, recording secretary for one year.

 

Interviewer [00:08:14] When was that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:15] That would be about 1915, 1914-1915, somewhere during that time.

 

Interviewer [00:08:25] Any other positions?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:27] No, no other positions.

 

Interviewer [00:08:29] And how about delegates, like the BC Federation?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:32] No, no.

 

Interviewer [00:08:33] You weren’t a delegate to any conventions in there, were you? Or the Labor Council?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:37] No, never had any of that.

 

Interviewer [00:08:39] How about committees? Were you on any of the, like, the bargaining committees?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:43] No,.

 

Interviewer [00:08:43] Union Label?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:44] No, not on any of those committees.

 

Interviewer [00:08:48] What about political conventions? Did you go to any of those? Any of the old parties or new parties?

 

Jack Campbell [00:08:56] No. The only one I was, you know, sort of interested in the CCF (Co-operative Commonwealth Federation).

 

Interviewer [00:09:14] For instance, there are all kinds of parties, like Socialist Labor Party, United Socialist Party, and there was the Labor Party, the Socialist Party of Canada.

 

Jack Campbell [00:09:30] No, I never belonged to the Socialist Party, but I belonged to some of the labour parties.

 

Interviewer [00:09:35] What, the Independent Labor Party? Canadian Labor Party?

 

Jack Campbell [00:09:39] I wouldn’t know. The one that was previous to the CCF.

 

Interviewer [00:09:44] And then the CCF, right?

 

Jack Campbell [00:09:46] Yeah, and then the CCF.

 

Interviewer [00:09:49] That was starting in 1933. Were you a member of that too?

 

Jack Campbell [00:09:55] Of the CCF? Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:09:57] I was too. I was, too.

 

Jack Campbell [00:10:03] In fact, we had the, what was this we called it, the clubs. Used to meet in our basement here.

 

Interviewer [00:10:15] I see.

 

Jack Campbell [00:10:16] That was the Glenburn Club.

 

Interviewer [00:10:19] Were you on the executive then? Like if they were to meet, were you the secretary or the president or something?

 

Jack Campbell [00:10:25] No, I didn’t.

 

Interviewer [00:10:26] You just had it at the house?

 

Jack Campbell [00:10:27] Just sat. I think I was the Vice President or some damn thing like that. I used to be scared to death to have to sit in the chair. I haven’t much ability in that way.

 

Interviewer [00:10:43] Were you unemployed at all for any extensive periods?

 

Jack Campbell [00:10:52] Yes. When I first came to Vancouver, there was, practically all one winter I was unemployed. And there was a —

 

Interviewer [00:11:05]  This was in 1910?

 

Jack Campbell [00:11:09] It would be previous to 1910, between somewhere about 1909 or 1908 or something like that. It had been about 1909.

 

Interviewer [00:11:28] When, when else? When, what other periods were you?

 

Jack Campbell [00:11:33] Well, of course, there was a three-month period when we were on strike.

 

Interviewer [00:11:40] When was that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:11:45] Start of 1911, it was a general strike.

 

Interviewer [00:11:49] I see. And what about during the 1920s or 1930s?

 

Jack Campbell [00:12:03] 1920s or 1930s I was working.  I was one of the lucky ones.  I was working for Burns, on maintenance for Burns. Burns Electric. You know, Pat Burns.

 

Interviewer [00:12:36] Pat Burns, eh?

 

Jack Campbell [00:12:38] I was maintenance.

 

Interviewer [00:12:38] When did you start working there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:12:38] About 1922, something like that.

 

Interviewer [00:12:43] Right through till when?

 

Jack Campbell [00:12:46] Until the Second World War. That would be about 1944 or something like that. I was there 22 years anyway.

 

Interviewer [00:13:08] Well, we’re trying to find out the influence of technology on the job, you know, automation or this kind of thing. So we’re wondering a number of things. Were there any changes in your industry that affected the way the job was done, that were significant changes?

 

Jack Campbell [00:13:47] No, I really can’t remember any. Of course, I was on this maintenance and away from the general building and so on like that.

 

Interviewer [00:14:13] When you got a job, would you have to go through an employment agency or anything like this?

 

Jack Campbell [00:14:25] I never did.

 

Interviewer [00:14:27] You just applied to the boss, or the union?

 

Jack Campbell [00:14:31] You see, I haven’t had very many jobs. See, like I was 22 years with Burns. When I quit Burns, I went over to the shipyards and then when I quit the shipyards, I never joined the— When the shipyard shut down, you know, well then I went to work for the elevators, you know, on the crane board. But all that time, this labour stuff was in there. You had to go and deposit your book in there, and I know I deposited my book there one morning. In the afternoon, I went back there to pick it up, and I got this job in the elevator.

 

Interviewer [00:15:44] Were you ever blacklisted?

 

Jack Campbell [00:15:47] Not that I know of.

 

Interviewer [00:15:54] Not that you know of. Okay. Yeah, we get quite a few guys that got blacklisted, you know. We’ve got quite a a few fellows that got blacklisted for the union or something like that.

 

Jack Campbell [00:16:03] Like Hoppe was more or less that way.

 

Interviewer [00:16:06] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:16:10] He’s a darn good worker, you know, but they’re just—[unclear]. He was a darn good worker.

 

Interviewer [00:16:20] Why did he get blacklisted then? For his political —?

 

Jack Campbell [00:16:23] Unions. Union activities like that.

 

Interviewer [00:16:34] When you arrived Vancouver, was the local established?

 

Jack Campbell [00:16:38] Oh yes, the local was established here then.

 

Interviewer [00:16:40] Do you remember when it was?

 

Jack Campbell [00:16:42] No, I really couldn’t say. At that time, there were two locals here. There was a local for linemen and a local for inside wiremen. And it was the inside wiremen I belonged to.

 

Interviewer [00:17:01] What were the numbers of each?

 

Jack Campbell [00:17:03] The inside wiremen was 621. The linemen was the original one, 213. That’s the one that is today.

 

Interviewer [00:17:16] They merged, didn’t they?

 

Jack Campbell [00:17:17] Then they merged when I was over in the old country, the First World War.

 

Interviewer [00:17:34] Have you heard of the American Labor Union, which this is organized here very early in the century, around Vancouver?

 

Jack Campbell [00:17:45] American Labor Union?

 

Interviewer [00:17:50] Yeah, something. Trying to get everybody into one union.

 

Jack Campbell [00:17:52] You mean like the OBU? (One Big Union).

 

Interviewer [00:17:54] Yeah, but it was earlier than that, right?

 

Jack Campbell [00:17:56] I beg your pardon?

 

Interviewer [00:17:57] Yes, like it, but not the same one, it was earlier than the other.

 

Jack Campbell [00:17:59] Earlier than that, no, I didn’t know anything about that.

 

Interviewer [00:18:08] What about the— What about the Anti-Asiatic League? Do you remember that at all?

 

Jack Campbell [00:18:26] Yes. I remember that, and that was the only part of it I remember was I was down in the Okanagan at the time, and the ranchers there wanted this Anti-Asiatic League. And some of the workers, a lot of them didn’t fall for it. The ranchers’ idea was that no rancher was to hire any Chinamen for more than $2 a day or something like that. And that happened, but a lot of them, a lot of the boys seem to think that they were just looking for cheap labour. I remember one meeting, one of these fellows got up and made an amendment that they give them $5 dollars a day, that no rancher could hire a Chinaman for less than $5 a day. He says, “That way the Chinamen won’t get a job. They’d have to get out of there. If you want to put the Chinamen out, that’s the way to do it.”

 

Interviewer [00:19:49] But what kind of a meeting was this?

 

Jack Campbell [00:19:52] Oh, Asiatic Exclusion League.

 

Interviewer [00:19:55] I see. This is in the Okanagan?

 

Jack Campbell [00:19:58] This was in the Okanagan, yes.

 

Interviewer [00:20:00]  I see, and this amendment didn’t go through. What kind of motions did they pass?

 

Jack Campbell [00:20:08] About this not paying the Chinaman a lower wage, quite a bit lower wage than the white one.

 

Interviewer [00:20:16] This, but they approved of this.

 

Jack Campbell [00:20:18] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:20:18] They thought it was a good idea, paying less.

 

Jack Campbell [00:20:20] It was a motion that went through. I know a lot of the boys I was working with at the time, they thought that that was just a way of getting cheap labour for the ranchers.

 

Interviewer [00:20:43] Yeah, who organized this in the Okanagan? Was it the ranchers?

 

Jack Campbell [00:20:48] Yes. It was the ranchers doing that.

 

Interviewer [00:20:51] And, what did they do other than just pass a resolution?

 

Jack Campbell [00:20:55] I don’t think they done anything very much more about it. I mean, there was no troubles or anything like that down there.

 

Interviewer [00:21:02] Was there a lot of Oriental labour down there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:21:05] There wasn’t an awful lot that I ran across.  Most of the Chinamen in those days were running laundries and stuff like that. You’d find cooks in construction camps and so on like that. Railway camps.

 

Interviewer [00:21:29] Were any of the unions affiliated to this at the time, or connected with it?

 

Jack Campbell [00:21:35] No, I don’t know. I didn’t know then.

 

Interviewer [00:21:41] Oh, you were a rancher at the time too, isn’t that right?

 

Jack Campbell [00:21:44] No, no, I wasn’t a rancher.

 

Interviewer [00:21:46] You were a farmer?

 

Jack Campbell [00:21:47] Working.

 

Interviewer [00:21:48] Oh, farm labour?

 

Jack Campbell [00:21:49] Yes, farm labour.

 

Interviewer [00:21:54] What was the position of most of the guys that were farm labour on this? Did they feel that their jobs were being undermined?

 

Jack Campbell [00:22:03] Well, they, you know, they didn’t like the idea of the Chinamen coming in there.

 

Interviewer [00:22:17] On what basis? The pay?

 

Jack Campbell [00:22:21] Yeah, the pay. The Chinamen, you know, would, well the Chinamen were able to work a lot cheaper than the white people, the white boys.

 

Interviewer [00:22:44] Now, this motion this fellow put about giving them $5 a day, how much support did that get?

 

Jack Campbell [00:22:53] Oh, it didn’t get very much, [unclear] fellow, he was an Icelander.

 

Interviewer [00:23:17] What do you feel the reason was for this kind of feeling at the time? Was it the wages? Or what was it? I mean, why were there a lot of anti-Oriental campaigns then? Why aren’t there now? Do you know?

 

Jack Campbell [00:23:38] Well, you know, it was just purely economical. Just figured that they, the Chinamen, would come and take away their jobs.

 

Interviewer [00:23:53] Was it very important at the time?

 

Jack Campbell [00:23:56] I know it wasn’t very important. I didn’t seem to attach very much of importance to it.

 

Interviewer [00:24:03] Now, when you came to Vancouver, there was still a lot—this carried on until about, quite a while, quite awhile until after the war even, didn’t it? The Asiatic Exclusion League.

 

Jack Campbell [00:24:22] I never seemed to, I never run across anything about it here when I came to Vancouver. You know, I think I’ve probably read about it or something like that that they did have some trouble here with the — I don’t remember any incidents of it.

 

Interviewer [00:24:45] Was it discussed at all in your local, when you joined the Electrical Workers?

 

Jack Campbell [00:24:49] No, no.

 

Interviewer [00:24:50] It wasn’t then. Well, next thing we’re interested in is socialism. Are you, or were you a socialist, at all? I guess you’re a socialist since you’re in the CCF, but would you consider yourself one?

 

Jack Campbell [00:25:14] Well, yeah, I guess probably I would, but, you know, not a very —

 

Interviewer [00:25:22] Doctrinaire. Well, I was wondering when did you, when you came out from Ireland, you didn’t have the same opinions probably, or did you?

 

Jack Campbell [00:25:35] I think I did, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:25:36] You did, I see.

 

Jack Campbell [00:25:39] You see, before I came out here I worked for a couple of years in London. I spent a couple years in London in a big power station there in Chelsea. That’s when we were constructing this power station for running the underground railways in London. Well, I used to go around Hyde Park and listen to those guys [unclear]. Quite a few socialists there.

 

Interviewer [00:26:21] So you were, you picked it up in London, more or less.

 

Jack Campbell [00:26:34] Yes, I imagine I did.

 

Interviewer [00:26:37] Well, what we’re trying to do is figure out why, how come BC is, you know, socialist? Well the BC workers are anyway. Can I use this? Yeah, sure. So, just to find out whether people brought it from London or really got it from Americans. Do you remember any, when you got to BC, who were, were there any, did you run into socialists here too?

 

Jack Campbell [00:27:09] No, never.

 

Interviewer [00:27:14] Didn’t eh?

 

Jack Campbell [00:27:15] I became acquainted with you know, with — I don’t think I — Of course I’ve been acquainted with people like Bill Pritchard and so on like that, I know him.

 

Interviewer [00:27:32] Did you know him way back then?

 

Jack Campbell [00:27:38] No, I just knew of him, but I didn’t answer the same, really, really well. Thank you. when he became Reeve of Burnaby, like you know.

 

Interviewer [00:27:56] As a matter of fact, I interviewed Bill Pritchard the other day, and he’s still alive. He’s in California. He is in town now, though.

 

Jack Campbell [00:28:05]  I know he used to live up here on Capitol Hill.

 

Interviewer [00:28:09] Who would you say were the leading socialists, the early propagandists in this province?

 

Jack Campbell [00:28:20] I don’t remember their names. There was, oh, there was a dentist down there, who was quite a socialist. [Dr. W.J. Curry]  I forget his name.

 

Interviewer [00:28:41] Telford?

 

Jack Campbell [00:28:42] Oh no, not Dr. Telford. Telford wasn’t a dentist.

 

Interviewer [00:28:45] He was a doctor.

 

Jack Campbell [00:28:46] Yes, this was a dentist.

 

Interviewer [00:28:48] I see.

 

Jack Campbell [00:28:49] He used to get around on these socialist meetings, and then there was another, Tom O’Connor and [unclear]. He was an ironworker, worked down the BC Marine. They used to get around quite a bit, you know, to all these. Go up through the country like a — this dentist he had an office in a building opposite,  somewhere around Victory Square there. Dammit, I can’t remember the name. The memory is not so good.

 

Interviewer [00:29:47] What about—were you going to say something?

 

Jack Campbell [00:29:55] [unclear] Jones, Tom O’Connor, I think Telford, he came, like this Federated Labor Party and that and then afterwards with the CCF. He was quite—that was like sort of later, wasn’t it?

 

Interviewer [00:30:20] What about, uh, were you in this Federated Labor Party?

 

Jack Campbell [00:30:23] Yes, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:30:27] Well, were there any newspapers, or books, or pamphlets that you remember were important in the early days that you remembered reading?

 

Jack Campbell [00:30:40] No, I can’t remember reading anything.

 

Interviewer [00:30:48] How about in your own local union? How were the fellows there? Were they pretty inclined to socialism or were they —

 

Jack Campbell [00:30:58] Oh they were all pretty much the same as I was, never very strong. Though they were, they seemed to regard their union as, you know, something worthwhile, like. How I would put it as something [unclear], or like a religion, more or less.

 

Interviewer [00:31:36] Do you remember at all the women’s suffrage fight for women to get the vote?

 

Jack Campbell [00:31:43] No, I don’t remember much about that.

 

Interviewer [00:31:48] What about the First World War? Now what was your attitude to the First World War and what did you think of it?

 

Jack Campbell [00:32:10] I wasn’t very enthused about it. You know what I mean, I didn’t, I wasn’t eager to join up, like, so, when I did try to join up, well, I wanted to join the engineers over in North Vancouver, and the two of us went over there one day and they sort of put us off like, you know. Things hadn’t started to move or something like that. So then we decided we’d go to the old country, and there were three of us went over to the old country. We were going to, we intended to join the Navy as electricians, like in the Navy. That was sort of a good rating. But we got work, when we went to work in a ship repair work in Liverpool and then when we did try for the Navy they wouldn’t take us because as they said it the men that would be at the Harland’s, Harland & Wolff, that’s who we were working for, and that they let go, well, couldn’t they have used them in the Navy. If the men were any good, Harland’s would hang onto them. You see, you know, quite a lot of ships getting, it was necessary to get a lot of ships going like that because they were sinking and all that sort of thing. Then it was necessary like for to get foodstuffs into England, munitions, as fast as they could.

 

Interviewer [00:34:17] Yes, I guess so. Well, what about your union now? What did they feel about it, the fellows on the job?

 

Jack Campbell [00:34:35] Oh, I don’t think they were—a lot of them joined up, that was how I got to be the recording secretary. The fellow that was recording secretary, he joined up and then I took over. The part of it like, why I was there was in the very beginning. I left here in 1915 and the war you know, this conscription hadn’t really hadn’t come in. There wasn’t the sort of need for soldiers at the time. I sort of missed all that, like, by going back to England.

 

Interviewer [00:35:34] Now, how come if you weren’t too enthusiastic about it, how come you enrolled and went to Britain? How come you tried to join them?

 

Jack Campbell [00:35:45] Well, I suppose we figured we’d eventually be called into the army, and I didn’t like the idea of this being up to your waist in the mud, just for the sake of getting killed, you know. And be hungry and all that sort of thing and I figured in the Navy they took the galley along with them when they were going along [laughs] and there wasn’t much chance of being hungry for you?

 

Interviewer [00:36:18] Sounds quite sensible.

 

Jack Campbell [00:36:20] Well, you know, the poor beggars there, they sure had it tough. Being, you know, on the trenches and all that, and mud and lice and every other darn thing.

 

Interviewer [00:36:44] Yeah, I guess so.

 

Interviewer [00:37:01] Did you ever, were you ever a member of the IWW (Industrial Workers of the World)?

 

Jack Campbell [00:37:06] No.

 

Interviewer [00:37:07] You weren’t, eh?

 

Jack Campbell [00:37:07] No.

 

Interviewer [00:37:08] You hear of it at all, have any connection with it?

 

Jack Campbell [00:37:12] Well, I remember, let’s see now, there was IWW, that was — there was a strike over on the Island, the coal miners or something like that. I can remember just this IWW. But they, I don’t know, there just seemed to be some of a rabid, a rabid bunch like that were rabble raisers. In fact, I know one of the organizers of the IWW, later on, I wasn’t here at the time, but I heard about it afterwards, later on he got evidence for the Conservative Party to unseat some of the Liberals over some of their elections, and he was the guy that had the evidence for them, but he was a rabble raiser.

 

Interviewer [00:38:23] Well, do you feel the IWW was a trade union or do you feel it was mainly a political organization?

 

Jack Campbell [00:38:31] Well, I think it was sort of anti-trade union anyway, like it was a sort of political organization. It was just something to exploit the, exploit the workers.

 

Interviewer [00:38:48] And what about the One Big Union (OBU)?

 

Jack Campbell [00:38:51] I missed all that.

 

Interviewer [00:38:52] You missed all of that? So you, were you not a member at all?

 

Jack Campbell [00:38:56] No, I was over in England at that time when they were.

 

Interviewer [00:39:02] How about when you came back now, did the Winnipeg General Strike Defense Fund? Was any of that going on when you come back?

 

Jack Campbell [00:39:10] It was all over by the time I came back. Pritchard was in jail.

 

Interviewer [00:39:18] You were a member of the Federated Labor Party, eh?

 

Jack Campbell [00:39:30] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:39:30] Was your union affiliated to it at all?

 

Jack Campbell [00:39:32] No.

 

Interviewer [00:39:34] It wasn’t, eh?

 

Jack Campbell [00:39:35] No, they weren’t tied up with any political parties.

 

Interviewer [00:39:42] But how about money? Did they donate any money?

 

Jack Campbell [00:39:45] Beg your pardon?

 

Interviewer [00:39:45] Did they donate any money to them?

 

Jack Campbell [00:39:47] I don’t think so.

 

Interviewer [00:39:51] What about members of your union? Were they candidates for it at all? Did any of your members of your local run in elections? Even municipal ones?

 

Jack Campbell [00:40:09] Yes, I think Morrison run.

 

Interviewer [00:40:13] Who was this?

 

Jack Campbell [00:40:14] Morrison. He was business agent for a long time. He run in some election.

 

Interviewer [00:40:27] What about the Independent Labor Party? I think around 1926 there was a split on the Oriental franchise and a lot of the guys left the Federated Labor Party and started the Independent Labor Party.

 

Jack Campbell [00:41:11] I didn’t get that.

 

Interviewer [00:41:11] What about the Workers’ Unity League? Remember that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:41:14] No, I don’t remember any of that.

 

Interviewer [00:41:22] What about that All-Canadian Congress of Labor? Now, this is later on, we’re getting into the 1930s.

 

Jack Campbell [00:41:34] Yeah, well that was, uh—I don’t know whether we were affiliated with it or not.

 

Interviewer [00:42:02] Don’t know, eh? And the CCL, the Canadian Congress of Labor? See the one, the ACCL became the CCL, like it was really the industrial unions,  IWA and this kind of thing.

 

Jack Campbell [00:42:34] No.

 

Interviewer [00:42:34] Do you remember how you got into the CCF?

 

Jack Campbell [00:42:37] Oh, well, sort of automatically from this Federated Labor Party.

 

Interviewer [00:42:42] Oh, I see.

 

Jack Campbell [00:42:44] It’s the Regina conference or something like that.

 

Interviewer [00:42:52] And right at the start?

 

Jack Campbell [00:42:54] Well, right at start, yes.

 

Interviewer [00:42:58] We’re trying to find out what happened to people during the 1920s and 1930s. I wonder, did your income drop at all during, the standard of living, during the 1930s?

 

Jack Campbell [00:43:16] Dring the 1930’s? During the Depression? Yeah. When I started to work at Burns, I was getting $44 a week. And then I worked in the business 22 years, and then I quit. I was getting $38.50.

 

Interviewer [00:43:45] That was in 1944.

 

Jack Campbell [00:43:48] 1944, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:43:50] Was it lower than that at all at any time?

 

Jack Campbell [00:43:53] Yes, it was. Yes, it was and I can’t remember just how low it went, but it was down somewhere around $30, I think.

 

Interviewer [00:44:16] Now, but the prices went down, too, didn’t they?

 

Jack Campbell [00:44:21] Yes, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:44:22] So, I mean, did you actually, were you actually poorer, or—

 

Jack Campbell [00:44:26] No, I don’t think we were poorer.  At that time, I had a young family, five children, and that, sort of building this, building this blooming house and that. I was pretty busy.

 

Interviewer [00:44:52] But did you lose anything? Like did you lose your house or your car or anything like that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:44:57] No, no, no.

 

Interviewer [00:45:00] What about, did you have to support any family? For instance any of your brothers or something like that?

 

Jack Campbell [00:45:09] I don’t have a brother and I’ve got three sisters and they’re all over in Ireland yet.

 

Interviewer [00:45:12] So you didn’t—

 

Jack Campbell [00:45:13] I didn’t have to support them.

 

Interviewer [00:45:15] You didn’t really get—like, some of the guys that have to support family members.

 

Jack Campbell [00:45:20] Yeah. No, I wasn’t that way. I had three sisters over in Ireland, and they were all, they were either working or then they got married. So I didn’t have, I didn’t have anything like that, I only just my own family to support.

 

Interviewer [00:45:48] Did your union lose its recognition at all during the 1920s or the 1930s at the place where you worked? You know what I mean? Did they lose their bargaining rights?

 

Jack Campbell [00:46:00] Where I worked? They didn’t have any bargaining rights. You see, I was the only one there. They didn’t. They did nothing to—no bargaining with the—

 

Interviewer [00:46:21] Were you at all involved in the On-to-Ottawa Trek?

 

Jack Campbell [00:46:26] In the what?

 

Interviewer [00:46:27] The On-to-Ottawa Trek.

 

Jack Campbell [00:46:29] No.

 

Interviewer [00:46:29] You weren’t, eh? And how about your union?

 

Jack Campbell [00:46:34] They weren’t involved in that.

 

Interviewer [00:46:37] And they didn’t support it in any way? Like holding money or something?

 

Jack Campbell [00:46:41] No, I don’t think so.

 

Interviewer [00:46:44] How much support was there be for this thing among your union?

 

Jack Campbell [00:46:57] I don’t know. I didn’t quite get that.

 

Interviewer [00:47:00] Well, did your union at all support the unemployed in the demonstrations?

 

Jack Campbell [00:47:07] Not really. Only that there was a devil of a lot of union men unemployed. We fellas that we were working I think that we, I just don’t remember how much it was, but we, you know, we had to pay in for it. Something like you know in case, well they had a fund, some fund like, you know, if a fellow was going to lose his house or something like that they could do something about it, like the union or a car or something like that, you know, that they could get some help from the union.

 

Interviewer [00:48:07] What about the Central Committee of the Unemployed? Do you remember that at all?

 

Jack Campbell [00:48:14] I don’t remember sending any delegates there or anything like that.

 

Interviewer [00:48:21] What about the post office sitdown demonstrations did you remember them?

 

Jack Campbell [00:48:25] Yes I remember that.

 

Interviewer [00:48:27] Were you yourself involved in this?

 

Jack Campbell [00:48:31] No, I mean except just sympathetic towards those fellows, that’s all.

 

Interviewer [00:48:43] What about your union?

 

Jack Campbell [00:48:47] I don’t think they as a union, I don’t think they had anything to do with it. Like individuals like Harold Winch and so on like that.

 

Interviewer [00:49:11] What important disputes, or strikes, lockouts, or wage cuts was your union involved in while you were in?

 

Jack Campbell [00:49:28] The only strike I ever was the general strike in about, somewhere about 1908 or something like that. No, it was 1908, 1910, I don’t know. Somewhere about that, there was a general strike for about three months. I think we were on strike about a week before them. But we settled our strike and then we had to come out again on this general strike.

 

Interviewer [00:49:58] What issue was involved there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:50:00] Beg your pardon?

 

Interviewer [00:50:00] What issue was involved there?

 

Jack Campbell [00:50:02] Well mostly I think it was the carpenters wanted more money.

 

Interviewer [00:50:17] Anything else?

 

Jack Campbell [00:50:20] I got pinched during that strike.

 

Interviewer [00:50:23] What do you mean, ‘pinched’?

 

Jack Campbell [00:50:28] We were picketing and this time it was a mass picket. Up around, let’s see, up around Powell Street I think. No, no, it wasn’t Powell Street, it was over the other way, on Keefer somewhere. Some land along there. One of the boys got picked up for throwing stones. He was a Greek, and he was also sat in his residence in Salvation Army. He might not be popping.This cardinal came out there, he came out with an axe, and this Bonet thought he could go up and talk to him, but in the meantime somebody threw some stones and hit this fella, and he picked up a stone and he threw it back, and that stone hit Bonet, and then Bonet picked up a stone and threw it at him, and by that time there were two policemen coming there and they arrested Bonet. I think Hoppe and I were both there. I stayed with Bonet, like, with these two policemen, and Hoppe went off to phone the local that Bonet had been picked up. Then a car came along loaded with police and detectives and that, and they jumped off and a lot of the fuzz was on, but I was with these two policemen, I’m with Bonet. But anyhow this sergeant in charge of the thing, I guess he figured he’d have to arrest somebody else, so he picked me up. But when it came up, this Senator was there, Senator Farris I think was the lawyer that was employed by the union at that time, he was a young man you know, and they had to go up to him and he had a huge joke when I suggested he call the two policemen as witnesses for me. He thought that was a huge joke, but when they came up on the police court, the sergeant, he wasn’t there, and so first, I told the judge that I want these two policemen as witnesses. I asked one of the cops what was about and he said he didn’t know anything about it, that he didn’t know what this sergeant had against me. He didn’t know anything. Anyway, I got… If this side did it against me, I was going to, he would do it. I have to call up the gatekeeper, I don’t have any more of that. I’m gonna juice it now.

 

Interviewer [00:53:43] Well, it’s all interesting. What about the other guy? Did he get off too?

 

Jack Campbell [00:53:50] No, he got fined $25.

 

Interviewer [00:53:53] Did the union pay it?

 

Jack Campbell [00:53:57] Oh yeah. At that time, we had a business agent and he was a Dutchman.

 

Interviewer [00:54:16] What was his name?

 

Jack Campbell [00:54:19] Estinghausen.

 

Interviewer [00:54:20] Yeah?

 

Jack Campbell [00:54:21] I don’t know He, was after the—but the judge [unclear]. And he talked to me, explained about Bonet being, you know, sort of the force of the devil. I think he had two sets of wings or something like that, didn’t he? And yeah, the judge thought, oh, we’ll couple of cases come up, we’ll fine them $25 or something like that.

 

Interviewer [00:55:15] Well, were there any other big milestones in your life that you remember?

 

Jack Campbell [00:55:23] Yeah, see I missed like these other strikes because on account of, because of me being working on maintenance work, it didn’t affect me, but let’s see what was—there was another, well that was when I was, during the time of this OBU business, they took the charter, they lifted the charter of 213. As it happened I was away at the time, and when I came back, there was no local here, running in Vancouver. And they’d taken the charter of 213 and and it came up and had to go into the courts.

 

Interviewer [00:56:13] They got it back though.

 

Jack Campbell [00:56:13] They got it back.

 

Interviewer [00:56:13] Well, who do you think were influential in shaping the course of the union over the years?

 

Jack Campbell [00:56:30] I think that Teddy Morrison had an awful lot to do. There was  a lot. There was fellows like Hoppe.  There was, oh, I can’t think of his name. Ted Cawker, he was another guy.

 

Interviewer [00:57:03] How do you spell his name?

 

Jack Campbell [00:57:03] C-A-W-K-E-R. Well, those fellows were sort of, you felt were real genuine men, there was a lot of them, like that. Then there was this trouble with later, with Gee in the Communist Party. Gee was a very good, to my mind, he was a very good business agent and he had a lot, a lot to do with making 213 the local it is today. During his time he encouraged us getting out into sports, like, you know, sponsoring baseball teams, football teams, runners. There was one girl in that IBEW team that took part in the Empire Games here. I can’t think of her name though, but her father was quite an enthusiastic union man too.

 

Interviewer [00:59:29] How come the, how did the communists influence on your union? How come your union was, there were a lot of communists in it, your local? There still are I think.

 

Jack Campbell [00:59:44] I don’t know, I don’t t know. Now, Gee, he was supposed to be a strong communist, but as far as I can make out he was a darn good business agent, and that was the reason why they got rid of him, because he was too damn good. I think that’s what. Well, I think BC Electric had a lot to do with that, and he was, he was too darn good! And that proves, you know, like, that was the time of that OBU stuff. That was what a BC Electric would have loved to have gotten Morrison out of there, as he was two darn good.

 

Interviewer [01:00:42] Well, the fact that he was a communist, did it influence the union at all?

 

Jack Campbell [01:00:52] I don’t think so. I don’t think so.

 

Interviewer [01:00:56] This Workers’ Unity League was a communist. When was Gee business agent?

 

Jack Campbell [01:01:05] Hmm. It was — Gee. I can’t remember the dates and all that, but he was a business agent for quite a while. Not only was he a business man, he was also a businessman.

 

Interviewer [01:01:39] In the 1930s, 1940s?

 

[01:01:41] During the First World War, or the Second World War. About that time.

 

Interviewer [01:01:51] Well, I guess we’re just about—do you have any names of other people that you would suggest me contact?

 

Jack Campbell [01:02:05] I know an electrician has been with this, that was with the CPR for quite a while. He’d probably be able to give you a lot more information about it than that thing.