Sam Turbitt Interview: Oil Refinery Workers Union

SP_FC_3803_U54_N_5_4_side1_Same Turbitt Oil Refinery Workers Local 4

Recorded September 1964

 

 

Interviewer [00:00:09]   I-T-T of IOCO British Columbia, and he’s going to tell us about the Oil Workers, Local Number 4 in Vancouver. You just go ahead Mr Turbitt.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:00:25] Well, what is—the

 

Interviewer [00:00:27] This is Local Number 4.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:00:31] The mill refinery union, or the?

 

Interviewer [00:00:36] Well, what was the first union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:00:39] Well, we’re the only ones in Canada.

 

Interviewer [00:00:43] That’s right but there were three in California I think.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:00:46] Oh, well, we were never—

 

Interviewer [00:00:49] You were not affiliated.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:00:49] We were affiliated with the Trades and Labor Council In Vancouver, and we had some delegates there. I guess that’s too long ago, you know, that’s 40 years or more years ago and I’ve forgotten a lot of the details, but I know it was March 1918 that we started talking about organizing. We were out for two weeks.

 

Interviewer [00:01:31] Well, how did you come about doing this?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:01:33] You see the superintendent here had no—he couldn’t say yes or no. He couldn’t give us a raise without getting—

 

Interviewer [00:01:43] The go ahead?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:01:44] Go ahead and drawn, you see. We had no way of getting in touch with them. Going through him. We didn’t know what he was really negotiating or—but when the refinery shut down, then he had to do something, so then they started to dicker with the union through him. In fact, we got better terms from them than what we asked for. We got more than what we asked.

 

Interviewer [00:02:19] What, your union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:02:21] Imperial Oil.

 

Interviewer [00:02:21] Did they recognize your union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:02:24] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:02:25] Did they recognize—

 

Sam Turbitt [00:02:25] Oh yes, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:02:25]   Well how—how did you get—you were dissatisfied I guess.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:02:32] We were dissatisfied then because we hadn’t had a raise and all during the war, and then the shipyard workers and all these other fellows was getting more money and we figured that while we were entitled to—the cost of living was right out of bounds ay? Mr. Sirdevan, he was a dedicated Imperial Oil man and he—

 

Interviewer [00:02:49] What was the name?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:02:54] Sirdevan.

 

Interviewer [00:02:55] Sirdevan? I see.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:02:58] And he figured that we should, you know, shouldn’t really ask Imperial Oil. He figured that they were good enough to give it to us when we were entitled to it.

 

Interviewer [00:03:09] Who was Sirdevan? Was he the foreman or the superintendant?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:03:09] The superintendant.

 

Interviewer [00:03:09] But how did you—what did you do? How did you go about forming a union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:03:21] Well, the Trades and Labour Council sent up two men from Vancouver, Victor Midgely was one of them.

 

Interviewer [00:03:30] But you had already gone on strike then, hadn’t you?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:03:31] Well, it wasn’t really. We had quit.

 

Interviewer [00:03:33] But had you—did this just happen or did you meet before?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:03:35] Oh, no, no. There was no talk about unions or anything else until after we had left the job.

 

Interviewer [00:03:42] So you just got up and left.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:03:45] Yeah. Then he came out and he organized them and you know, president and vice president and secretary and all that stuff.

 

Interviewer [00:03:55] Where did you organize?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:03:58] We had an old—we  didn’t have, there was no townsite here then. We had an old scow house down on the waterfront, used to hold the dances and the parties in and that’s how we used for a meeting hall.

 

Interviewer [00:04:10] And somebody phoned them up. Do you remember who took the initiative?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:04:23] Billy Baird.

 

Interviewer [00:04:24] How do you spell that?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:04:24] B-A-I-R- D. Billy Baird and Ernie Singleton and Pat Denny, they were the ones that had, you know, appointed themselves [laughs] as organizers. But we were along fine without any other trouble, went back to work and we got about 100 percent.

 

Interviewer [00:04:47] Now, well, before you went back to work, you went to the place and Midgley was there I guess. Was he?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:04:53] Yeah.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:04:54] And what—was this all out in the open and everything? The company know about it?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:04:59] Oh, yes. The superintendant, he went down there and talked to us, you know.

 

Interviewer [00:05:04] What did he say?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:06] Well, he said he didn’t think it was fair, you know, that we could have given, should have given them notice before we closed the plant down.

 

Interviewer [00:05:14] But you went ahead anyways.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:20] We went ahead. We couldn’t help it then.

 

Interviewer [00:05:23] And do you remember who the officers were?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:26] Well, I said, I guess those three men that I mentioned.

 

Interviewer [00:05:29] Who was the president?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:29] Singleton, I think.

 

Interviewer [00:05:29] Singleton. The secretary?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:35] The secretary was a fella the name of Cunahan. He’s dead now.

 

Interviewer [00:05:43] I see. And, you formed the union. Did you negotiate then with the company?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:47] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:05:48] And what? Singleton and the officers?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:52] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:05:52] They all sat.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:53] Yeah. Negotiated with the—

 

Interviewer [00:05:56] Were you still out then strike?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:05:57] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:05:58] Now, what about the other trades. You said a while ago that all the other trades came out with you. Is that right?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:03] Yeah. There was nobody left on the plant. Only the shift men, process men. They stayed on for a week after we went out, you know, and then they decided they better get in on it too.

 

Interviewer [00:06:20] So everybody left?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:20] Everybody.

 

Interviewer [00:06:22] And how long did this last, how long were you off work?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:26] Two weeks.

 

Interviewer [00:06:27] And during those two weeks you from the Union and you negotiated.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:30] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:06:31] And then what?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:32] Then went back to work.

 

Interviewer [00:06:34] Did you get what you wanted?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:35] We got more than we asked for.

 

Interviewer [00:06:37] What did you ask for and what did you get?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:06:38] Well, I just forget the figure, what we raised wages was, for one instance the shift men worked seven days a week. Two shifts a day. The day shift worked 10 hours and the night shift worked 14. When they changed shifts  they had to work 22  hours to get a day off, the change of shift. When they came back the 48-hour week and about 100 percent boost in wages.

 

Interviewer [00:07:13] A 100 percent boost in wages. Now was this after the war? or before the—

 

Sam Turbitt [00:07:18] No, this was ’18.

 

Interviewer [00:07:18] In ’18?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:07:22] Yeah, March of ’18. The war ended in—

 

Interviewer [00:07:27] So that’s from the [unclear]. What do you think? That’s the reason why you got it?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:07:32] No, I don’t think so. I think what they had in mind, we laughed about it since, that they were waiting for the Standard Oil.

 

Interviewer [00:07:39] Oh yeah.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:07:40] To put that plan into effect and then Imperial Oil would take it from there see, but we jumped the gun on them I guess. They were ready, when they got ready in 1919 and they put this up in place. They put this proposition, this Employees’ Benefit Plan.

 

Interviewer [00:08:04] Is that what they called it?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:08:04] Yeah, and there were nobody in their right senses would have turned it down. One stipulation was that it had to go with the company’s union. The company elected or selected 10 foremen and the employees elected 10 representatives from each department, and the superintendant was the chairman. The superintendent had the deciding vote. But we got along good. You see what they did, they put in this pension plan, the first of its kind in Canada. Non-contributary.

 

Interviewer [00:08:55] Non-contributary pension plan.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:08:56] Yeah. The health and accident insurance.

 

Interviewer [00:09:06] Workmen’s Compensation.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:09:07] No, there was no Compensation in them  days. So they paid, they paid after three days I guess it was. Paid you full wages. On 10 years. Of course they revised that all again in 1932.

 

Interviewer [00:09:21] Let’s just stay here for a moment. Did you, for instance, did you have seniority rights under this plan?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:09:29] More or less. It’s not—it wasn’t nailed down to strict seniority. It was more you know, the company could pick their own man for—but they didn’t do that though. They stayed with the majority ruling pretty strict. The biggest—

 

Interviewer [00:09:56] What happened then? Did your union disband?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:09:56] The union just fell apart.

 

Interviewer [00:09:58] Fell apart. Why?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:10:03] Because this offer that the company give them  given it was so enticing, you know, you couldn’t blame them.

 

Interviewer [00:10:08] Did you get any wage increase in that too? Or no wage increase?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:10:09] Yes.

 

Interviewer [00:10:10] Wage increase?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:10:16] Yes. We got an increase without asking for it. In the 1920, 1919—

 

Interviewer [00:10:24] What was the reaction of the Union officers?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:10:29] Well, they didn’t fight very hard against it. You see on this plan the company matched you dollar-for-dollar, up to 25 percent of your wages to buy stock in the company. And your life insurance and accident insurance that was contributary. But they went 50-50 with it. It went along then from that to—when did the Oil Workers, in ’46?

 

Interviewer [00:11:16] Yeah, I think it was ’46. So that the union collapsed.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:25] Yeah.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:26] What about the international before it collapsed now, you reduced paying members didn’t you, I guess?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:34] Yeah. Well of course we now what what they did do down there which, I don’t know, they joined the O.B.U.

 

Interviewer [00:11:39] They did?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:39] Yeah. We were in O.B.U. for a while.

 

Interviewer [00:11:48] When was that?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:49] Well, that was during the time when we were in—

 

Interviewer [00:11:53] 1919?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:55] That was when they had the big trouble in Winnipeg.

 

Interviewer [00:11:56] During that time you were in the O.B.U.?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:11:59] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:12:00] Can you tell me anything about that? I mean, you were a member. We you on the executive?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:12:06] No, no. I never had any office because I was more or less, I wasn’t a foreman, but I was a sub-foreman.

 

Interviewer [00:12:13] Sub-foreman.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:12:13] Yeah, on an hourly pay basis.

 

Interviewer [00:12:18] Well, uh—

 

Sam Turbitt [00:12:22] But that O.B.U. in your record because that was bad you know. They got criticized for that by the company. That was—

 

Interviewer [00:12:35] The company didn’t like it.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:12:36] No, they didn’t mind being affiliated with the—

 

Interviewer [00:12:38] Oil workers?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:12:40] With the Trades and Labour Council in Vancouver, but when they’re doing this big stuff, you know, that was a big strike, you know, in 1919 on that Winnipeg when they put them in jail. Woodsworth and Ivens and Queen.

 

Interviewer [00:12:58] They thought what? Did they think you were Bolsheviks?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:12:59] Well, I thought they were too [laughs] they were a little bit out of our line, I guess, they figured.

 

Interviewer [00:13:05] Well, what, do you remember meeting any of the O.B.U. organizers?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:13:12] No, no.

 

Interviewer [00:13:14] Did you have a [unclear}, a meeting, any kind of thing?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:13:18] I can’t remember now.

 

Interviewer [00:13:20] You can’t remember.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:13:22] I can’t remember just what the procedure was there. I know that we were affiliated with them, the O.B.U.

 

Interviewer [00:13:42] Did you have a card?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:13:42] I beg your pardon?

 

Interviewer [00:13:42] Did you get a card?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:13:42] Oh yeah, oh yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:13:45] Well, how long did this last?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:13:54] Well we were hooked up with the O.B.U. when we disbanded.

 

Interviewer [00:14:00] When you disbanded?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:00] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:14:03] Was there much of an effort that kept you from the International or from the Vancouver Labour Council?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:07] No, Vancouver Trades and Labour Council was kind of falling apart then too. You know what I mean, they wasn’t very active.

 

Interviewer [00:14:14] They couldn’t do anything about it?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:18] They never bothered.

 

Interviewer [00:14:22] What about—do you remember having any contact with the International?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:27] We never, we never belonged to the International.

 

Interviewer [00:14:28] You never did.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:31] No.

 

Interviewer [00:14:31]  They have you down in their books, you know.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:36] Well, we might have been hooked up to them, you know, but never knew anything about it. Through the Trades and Labour Council.

 

Interviewer [00:14:45] Now how about filling in and telling us about what happened in your—were you on the board at all? The joint board of the company union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:14:57] Yeah, I was on there for years.

 

Interviewer [00:15:00] Which side were you on?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:15:01] The company. I was first—

 

Interviewer [00:15:01] You were the foreman?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:15:03] I was the delegate from the filling house workers at first, but there came a vacancy in there in the foremanship, foreman job, so I got the foreman job, and from then on I represented the company.

 

Interviewer [00:15:24] What about, how did this thing work out?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:15:28] Well, it worked out all right. I don’t know why I didn’t—it was never very—they never very much trouble but of course then when the boys got the idea that they were gonna to form another union, well it just naturally collapsed.

 

Interviewer [00:15:52] When was this?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:15:53] That was about 1945 or 46 when they first started this Oil Workers.

 

Interviewer [00:16:01] They organized another union.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:16:04] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:16:04] The company union collapsed then ay?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:16:07] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:16:07] Why do you figure this and how did this happen?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:16:10] Well, a lot of the boys dissatisfied. There was new generation coming up, you know, and they figured they could do better I suppose with their own union.  Maybe they did, I don’t know, why. Ten years now—

 

Interviewer [00:16:27] Do you remember how it got organized at all? Were you in on it?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:16:31] No, no.

 

Interviewer [00:16:33] You were still a foreman.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:16:34] Yeah. So I  in fact wasn’t very much interested because I didn’t figure it would ever go through.

 

Interviewer [00:16:45] I see, but it did eh?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:16:46] No, I used to—I bet money with some of the fellas it wouldn’t make it. (laughter)

 

Interviewer [00:16:55] Well, tell me. In this book I read on the Oil Workers they say that the company hired a lot of—they weeded out, they discriminated against some union guys. This is in 1920 or so.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:10] Well—

 

Interviewer [00:17:11] They hired veterans, and replaced them with the veterans. Is that so?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:17] There was one or two cases, but the union couldn’t [unclear] because [unclear].

 

Interviewer [00:17:21] How’s this?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:26] One stipulation in the contract was there was no union business transacted on the job.

 

Interviewer [00:17:27] No union business—

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:31] Transacted on the job. Well these fellas broke the rule and they got fired, and there was nothing—the company handled it—

 

Interviewer [00:17:39] Who got fired?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:41] Well I wouldn’t— they wasn’t really fired, they were eased out.

 

Interviewer [00:17:50] Laid off.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:50] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:17:51] And were they the leading members of the union or did they just—

 

Sam Turbitt [00:17:55] Well, yes. It was one of them, two of them, pretty well up in the union.

 

Interviewer [00:18:01] Well, I mean, what about the president and secretary and so on. Did they stay in, or?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:18:08] The president, yes.  He was still—he wasn’t—there was never any—anything doing with him, but these other fellows, I think they would have been alright if they had of lived up to the contract.

 

Interviewer [00:18:19] I see.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:18:19] As a fact they were told they were carrying on union business on the company’s time.

 

Interviewer [00:18:28] How was the union security. Like, did they have a check-off, for instance?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:18:35] In the old?

 

Interviewer [00:18:36] No?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:18:36] No, no.

 

Interviewer [00:18:36] And a closed shop or open shop?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:18:40] It was—it was a closed shop.

 

Interviewer [00:18:44] It was a closed shop, so everybody had to join. Did they have—they didn’t have much trouble organizing?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:18:54] No, oh no, of course it was it was done very quietly. There was no [unclear] of any kind.

 

Interviewer [00:19:01] And they organized openly?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:19:03] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:19:03] The company knew all about it?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:19:06] Oh yeah. In fact it was company’s representatives had called the meeting. There was no hard feelings, you know. No hard feelings. No no, no. I think even the superintendant realized that we were entitled to, with his hands was more or less tied and he was an easterner, he wasn’t acquainted with the ways of British Columbia. He hadn’t been out here.

 

Interviewer [00:19:41] B.C. was pretty radical.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:19:44] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:19:44] Still is, I suppose. What about the O.B.U.? Did they organize?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:19:54] Well, of course, they collapsed too, the O.B.U.

 

Interviewer [00:19:58] Yeah but I mean, how did they go about organizing? Were they more secret?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:20:02] Well, I don’t know just how that come about. Now, whether we applied, and whether the employers applied for membership in there. I think that’s how it were. I think they applied there—

 

Interviewer [00:20:11] At a union meeting?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:20:12] Yeah. I suppose they’d been asked to join up.

 

Interviewer [00:20:19] But you don’t really remember.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:20:20]  I don’t know, it’s so damn long ago, I’ve forgotten and that stuff and years. [laughs]

 

Interviewer [00:20:26] Is there anything else you want to mention about this?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:20:33] That was about all there was to it. A very simple affair. The union was organized and the company recognized it and gave us all we asked for. We never ever had any trouble. In fact I was promoted to foreman a couple years afterwards. I don’t know [unclear].

 

Interviewer [00:20:59] And were you known as a pro-union guy?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:21:01] No, and I wasn’t a pro-union. I was just one of the boys, that was all. There was 300 of us working here then, and it was just a few of the ones that more or less some experience in union business that brung the thing.

 

Interviewer [00:21:19] Was the plant right here at IOCO?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:21:21]  Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:21:22] The plant?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:21:22] Yeah. That’s right.

 

Interviewer [00:21:29] Another thing, you mentioned on the phone you were in the Western Mine Workers?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:21:35] Oh yeah, that was when I first came from the old country.

 

Interviewer [00:21:38] That’s it. When did you come over?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:21:39] In 1909.

 

Interviewer [00:21:40] 1909, and what, did you work in the interior?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:21:44] I worked down in Washington state for a while, and then I got a job in the sawmill for Phoenix, but before you could [unclear] for a job in the mine you had to belong to the union line, the bartenders, the waitresses and the cooks, and everybody belonged to the union up there.

 

Interviewer [00:22:05] Which one was this? The Western Miners?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:08] The Western Federation of Miners.

 

Interviewer [00:22:10] Western Federation of Miners.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:12] Pretty sure that was iit.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:13] I had the card for years and I couldn’t find it now. But, there was, I was sitting there one morning when they hauled in a couple of guys that had been blowed up in the mine, so I decided I had—of course my old man told me he was a miner, out in [unclear] he told me, he said, “stay away from the mines.”

 

Interviewer [00:22:35] So then you went up to B.C.?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:38] This was in B.C., yeah.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:39] This was in B.C.?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:39] Yeah. Down in the States I was just—

 

Interviewer [00:22:42] Whereabouts in B.C.?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:43] It’s Phoenix. Grandby Consolidated had a big mine at Phoenix.

 

Interviewer [00:22:50] Do you remember anything about that?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:52] Well, I remember they—

 

Interviewer [00:22:53] What years were this for instance?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:22:53] Well they were running strong in 1909 and they had the big smelter in Grand Forks. That went on—I went down to Grand Forks from working the sawmill for a while. Down to Grand Forks and they were in the same union, you see.  The smelter workers.

 

Interviewer [00:23:17] The sawmill was also in the—?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:23:20] No, the sawmill belonged to an independent fella. He was cutting square timbers for the bridges they were putting up on the railroad. But, the Grand Forks smelter, they belonged to the Miner’s Union too, and you had to have a card before you could go, you see. When I was on the morning [unclear] job, you didn’t get on, you went on at four, and if you didn’t get on then, you went out at midnight, stood in line you know, see if they wanted a man—

 

Interviewer [00:23:53] And this the union hiring?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:23:55] No, no,they had the timekeeper did the hiring.

 

Interviewer [00:23:59] But you had to have a union card.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:01] You had to be a union man, yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:24:02] And how did you go about applying?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:04] Well, I this—

 

Interviewer [00:24:07] No trouble joining?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:08] Oh, no, I went down into Phoenix with a member, you know, and joined up and got my card, paid my dues.

 

Interviewer [00:24:16] Do you remember what they were, the dues?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:20] It was five dollars to join, a dollar a month, something like.

 

Interviewer [00:24:20] A dollar a month.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:20] But I never, after I came out to Vancouver in 1910, I was never—

 

Interviewer [00:24:32] So you were only there for a year?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:34] No, less than a year.

 

Interviewer [00:24:35] Less than a year.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:35] Six months.

 

Interviewer [00:24:36] Do you remember any of the officers or any—did you have any strikes?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:24:42] No. No, not in my time, and they of course, shortly after the mine, they were all kind of played out. They shut her down, shut the smelter down and built this plant up at Anyox up north of Prince Rupert which is dismantled now and they moved that plant to Princeton, just across the river from Princeton there. And that’s played out now too. That’s three times [unclear]. No, in that mining towns you—bartenders and waitresses and all that belong to the union, couldn’t hold a job.

 

Interviewer [00:25:40] Even when they were—were they employed by the company?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:25:43] No, no, no, no. This is right in the saloon, around town.

 

Interviewer [00:25:48] They had a union card?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:25:48] Yeah.

 

Interviewer [00:25:51] Well, what if they didn’t they—nobody would call?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:25:54] They wouldn’t hire them if they didn’t belong to the union.

 

Interviewer [00:25:54] A union card then. Nothing really occurred when you were there?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:26:04] No. Oh, no, no. I wasn’t interested. Cold winter too. It was the wintertime. Thinking about getting out of the coop while the weather was blowing.

 

Interviewer [00:26:11] How old were then?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:26:12] Twenty.

 

Interviewer [00:26:20] Well, I guess that’s—

 

Sam Turbitt [00:26:23] There was nothing really happened around here that is noteworthy, you know. We just went along, and as far as I was concerned there was no intimidation or no nothing against anybody, outside of those fellows that you mentioned. It  was a [unclear] shop, kind of organized, kind of talk. Now I said—that’s another thing. I don’t think that there was—I don’t think that it were a closed shop.

 

Interviewer [00:26:51] When? The Oil Workers?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:26:56]  Yeah. But I don’t think it was compulsory, but everybody recognized that they had to. See, they brought in, when they changed over from two shifts to three, that took in all the process men, the pump men. They had to bring a lot of, I would say men. Of course they promoted a lot of the fellas from the labouring gang, loaded them up into the shift jobs.

 

Interviewer [00:27:42] Do you remember what the dues were in the Oil Workers? Is that what you call them by the way? What did you call them?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:27:49] The Refinery Workers Union.

 

Interviewer [00:27:49] The Refinery Workers Union.

 

Sam Turbitt [00:27:49] It was a dollar a month, I guess. A dollar a month, I think, or a dollar-and-a-half.

 

Interviewer [00:27:51] Well, you got anything else?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:27:53] No, I don’t think anything else. I could go on talking and tell you about things, but the not the stuff you’re interested in. Nothing to do about this, you know.

 

Interviewer [00:27:57] Nothing in the new union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:27:58] No, I went along, like I tell you from 1920 to  1945 with a company union and it was pretty peaceful meetings, so [laughs}. One thing Imperial Oil did do, they always paid more wages and was paid to the same, in the same category, around the district, around Vancouver. You know, like, tradesmen and labourers.

 

Interviewer [00:28:50] Then there was no attempt to organize a union?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:28:54] Not in the meantime.

 

Interviewer [00:28:54] Not until ’46?

 

Sam Turbitt [00:28:55] Not in the meantime, no

 

Interviewer [00:28:57] I see.

 

Interviewer [00:29:04] Well, that’s the end.